Comments on: The Dark Knight: For Real, This Time http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:51:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Meera http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3263 Meera Sat, 26 Jul 2008 06:02:03 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3263 Good analysis, I agree completely. I can't confirm if it was done intentionally but Batman's decision over Rachel and Harvey Dent <b>was very ambiguous<b>. Anyone who tries to simplify this by dismissing it as a trick by the Joker is an idiot. Not a hint of surprise by the batman upon finding Dent, nor does he regard the Joker with any bitterness over tricking him. When Dent terrorizes Gordon's family at 250 (where Rachel died), he is mad with anger; he says Rachel's life/death was left to chance. Batman refutes this, saying it was a decision made by them 3 (Batman, Gordon and Dent). Obviously Batman knew Joker was lying but made a conscious decision to save the White Knight of Gotham. This is so much more meaningful and makes so much more sense. It is also consistent with the fact that Rachel picked Dent over Batman /Bruce Wayne. Good analysis, I agree completely. I can’t confirm if it was done intentionally but Batman’s decision over Rachel and Harvey Dent was very ambiguous. Anyone who tries to simplify this by dismissing it as a trick by the Joker is an idiot. Not a hint of surprise by the batman upon finding Dent, nor does he regard the Joker with any bitterness over tricking him. When Dent terrorizes Gordon’s family at 250 (where Rachel died), he is mad with anger; he says Rachel’s life/death was left to chance. Batman refutes this, saying it was a decision made by them 3 (Batman, Gordon and Dent). Obviously Batman knew Joker was lying but made a conscious decision to save the White Knight of Gotham. This is so much more meaningful and makes so much more sense. It is also consistent with the fact that Rachel picked Dent over Batman /Bruce Wayne.

]]> By: A Different Alex http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3196 A Different Alex Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:33:12 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3196 My personal opinion is that Bats fell for the Dent/Rachel misdirect - but I'd need to see it again, and look *specifically* for the surprise or lack thereof when finding DENT where the Joker said Rachel was. I find it..bleaker...to agree with your interpretation. And this was a damn bleak movie. Thanks for your review; it reminded me of things I forgot in my Joker-horrified-glee (the ferries!), and now I have to go see it again. Which is a lot like looking at a glass filled with acid, knowing you need to drink it. That Joker - so horrible. "I'm going to make this pencil disappear." My personal opinion is that Bats fell for the Dent/Rachel misdirect – but I’d need to see it again, and look *specifically* for the surprise or lack thereof when finding DENT where the Joker said Rachel was.

I find it..bleaker…to agree with your interpretation.

And this was a damn bleak movie.

Thanks for your review; it reminded me of things I forgot in my Joker-horrified-glee (the ferries!), and now I have to go see it again. Which is a lot like looking at a glass filled with acid, knowing you need to drink it.

That Joker – so horrible. “I’m going to make this pencil disappear.”

]]> By: patrick http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3191 patrick Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:29:26 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3191 at times the Joker seemed almost too smart, borderline clairvoyant, but i guess that what makes him a good foe for the Batman... at times the Joker seemed almost too smart, borderline clairvoyant, but i guess that what makes him a good foe for the Batman…

]]> By: Alex http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3142 Alex Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:41:07 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3142 Man that was a long comment, sorry. I get carried away sometimes. *blushes* Man that was a long comment, sorry. I get carried away sometimes.

*blushes*

]]> By: Alex http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3141 Alex Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:39:30 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3141 I read your footnote, but I still think Batman went to save Rachel and got Harvey instead. Why? Because The Joker knew Batman would run to her (not that I assume he knew who Batman's alter ego is, but rather the way that Batman defended Rachel at the party, he had to know she was special), and he switched the addresses so that Rachel would ultimately die. This was partly to get to Batman, sure, but also partly to destroy Harvey - as Gordon says at the end, if The Joker can destroy (twist/cripple/render insane) Harvey Dent, what chance do the rest of them have? If it weren't for The Joker's mission to destroy Harvey Dent, I'd've agreed and thought that Batman would've known that The Joker would've switched the addresses and had gone to save Harvey instead, sacrificing Rachel for the good of Gotham City. And whilst I'm open to being totally wrong, I think his determination to corrupt the White Knight (as you so eloquently put it) tips the scales slightly in that direction. Only slightly. (Besides, Batman doesn't seem surprised when he gets Harvey because, really, when does he ever seem surprised? He's not given to showing much emotion as Batman (I blame the mask). I think he gets the wrong person and realises that nothing can be done now, that all he can do is save Harvey (because he is worthy of saving, after all) and hope that Gordon makes it to Rachel in time.) I read your footnote, but I still think Batman went to save Rachel and got Harvey instead. Why? Because The Joker knew Batman would run to her (not that I assume he knew who Batman’s alter ego is, but rather the way that Batman defended Rachel at the party, he had to know she was special), and he switched the addresses so that Rachel would ultimately die. This was partly to get to Batman, sure, but also partly to destroy Harvey – as Gordon says at the end, if The Joker can destroy (twist/cripple/render insane) Harvey Dent, what chance do the rest of them have?

If it weren’t for The Joker’s mission to destroy Harvey Dent, I’d've agreed and thought that Batman would’ve known that The Joker would’ve switched the addresses and had gone to save Harvey instead, sacrificing Rachel for the good of Gotham City. And whilst I’m open to being totally wrong, I think his determination to corrupt the White Knight (as you so eloquently put it) tips the scales slightly in that direction. Only slightly.

(Besides, Batman doesn’t seem surprised when he gets Harvey because, really, when does he ever seem surprised? He’s not given to showing much emotion as Batman (I blame the mask). I think he gets the wrong person and realises that nothing can be done now, that all he can do is save Harvey (because he is worthy of saving, after all) and hope that Gordon makes it to Rachel in time.)

]]> By: mckenzee http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3126 mckenzee Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:37:26 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3126 re: the wrong address I actually expected something similar with the ferries, i.e., that the detonators would be for the boat they were on (I'm not rewriting that sentence again, it's awkward, but it makes sense). I like the actual version better. re: the wrong address

I actually expected something similar with the ferries, i.e., that the detonators would be for the boat they were on (I’m not rewriting that sentence again, it’s awkward, but it makes sense).

I like the actual version better.

]]> By: corwin http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3125 corwin Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:09:57 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3125 I would just add that one of the things I really loved, and really made the movie work for me, is that the Joker won. He destroyed the White Knight, proved that even the incorruptably good Harvey Dent could be bent and twisted until he was worse than the very menaces he had been trying to rid the city of. Even Batman's sacrifice at the end (however changeable the public opinion will be) could not give the story a happy ending. It was so much more viscerally satisfying to me to <em>not</em> have all the lose ends tied up in a neat and tidy knot at the end. I would just add that one of the things I really loved, and really made the movie work for me, is that the Joker won. He destroyed the White Knight, proved that even the incorruptably good Harvey Dent could be bent and twisted until he was worse than the very menaces he had been trying to rid the city of. Even Batman’s sacrifice at the end (however changeable the public opinion will be) could not give the story a happy ending. It was so much more viscerally satisfying to me to not have all the lose ends tied up in a neat and tidy knot at the end.

]]> By: Jenna http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3124 Jenna Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:58:23 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3124 I thought he wasn't surprised because it made so much sense surprise would have been beside the point. When the Joker threw out the bait, Batman dove after Rachel in a mad flailing of intent, but he'd probably sorted out who he would really find well before he arrived at the scene -- or at least had run all the possible scenarios. When he arrives, the focus is consumed by Harvey's shock and fury, burying whatever muted reaction Batman has allowed himself -- but he wastes nothing with acting out, instead doing what he can for Rachel in that horrible moment by trying to save Harvey. I thought he wasn’t surprised because it made so much sense surprise would have been beside the point. When the Joker threw out the bait, Batman dove after Rachel in a mad flailing of intent, but he’d probably sorted out who he would really find well before he arrived at the scene — or at least had run all the possible scenarios.

When he arrives, the focus is consumed by Harvey’s shock and fury, burying whatever muted reaction Batman has allowed himself — but he wastes nothing with acting out, instead doing what he can for Rachel in that horrible moment by trying to save Harvey.

]]> By: Stooge http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3123 Stooge Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:57:12 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3123 Whoops, just saw your response. But I am pretty sure that Batman tells Gordon that he's going to save Rachel, for what it's worth. Whoops, just saw your response. But I am pretty sure that Batman tells Gordon that he’s going to save Rachel, for what it’s worth.

]]> By: Cherie http://www.cheriepriest.com/2008/07/21/the-dark-knight-for-real-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3122 Cherie Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:56:19 +0000 http://www.cheriepriest.com/?p=517#comment-3122 Dude. Read the footnote. Dude.
Read the footnote.

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